JAMES HUMPOLETZ: Welcome to O.C. Tanner's Culture by Design podcast, where we discuss the research, practices, and strategies that help employees everywhere thrive at work.
I'm James Humpoletz and today I'm joined by Caroline Alderman, speaker and strategist at O.C. Tanner in Europe.
Today we're looking at recognition through the eyes of someone who has just completed her first 90 days with O.C. Tanner and we're asking some key questions. How long does it take to understand the culture of a new organization? Is it something you learn from the values on the website, from what leaders say, or from the every day moments that show you what and who really matter?
Caroline, you've now been with the company for around 90 days, which gives you a particularly interesting perspective. You're close enough to those first impressions to remember them clearly, but you have also had time to begin seeing how the culture works in practice.
So, welcome to the podcast.
CAROLINE ALDERMAN: Thank you. It's great to be here.
JAMES: So, we'll get straight in, I think, with the first question. Before you joined, what did you expect the culture to feel like? And what have you actually experienced?
CAROLINE: Yeah, I mean obviously, you know, when before you're joining an organization, you're going to do some research. You look at the values on the website. I had, I did have you know a preconceived notion of what I thought it might be like.
I will say I have been pleasantly surprised but also it largely aligned with exactly what I thought it would be. It was a very refreshing experience where what happened is actually what I'd hoped would happen or I thought was going to happen.
JAMES: I'm curious, was there a particular moment that made the culture sort of feel real over the last few months?
CAROLINE: I suppose if I could point to kind of one defining experience, it was, it must have been my first couple of weeks here and there was an anniversary, a one-year anniversary celebration and seeing people dial in and the entire office gather around this one individual and it wasn't just, hey, thanks for all you've done. You know, you've done a really great job here, you work so hard, we really appreciate you.
It was multiple individuals giving personal stories about how she had impacted their time at O.C. Tanner, their personal life, their working relationships, their client relationships.
And it was all very specific praise and thanks. And I had never seen anything like that before. And you know, growing up in America, we give, you know, lots of praise, lots of claps, but sometimes it's not always quite so specific and so personal.
I also think what surprised me was that, you know, in British culture, you tend to hold your cards a bit closer to your chest and you aren't always so forthcoming with how you feel about things and it was really surprising and honestly, I mean, it was lovely to see.
So, yeah, I think that's probably the biggest moment I can point to.
JAMES: Yeah, it sounds really like something that, very different perhaps to organizations you've been familiar with in the past, and so those experiences sort of feel all the more special.
Sticking with culture but perhaps thinking more about kind of organizational culture. You know, we often describe it as values and purpose statements and leadership principles, but as a new employee, what actually makes culture visible, do you think?
CAROLINE: It's how people show up every day. It's how you're treated every day.
As I said, when you're looking for a job or when you're thinking of joining a company, you do read the values on the website, for no other reason than to be able to answer that question in the interview process.
But you know I think in most organizations, even leadership, they couldn't quote their values to you. They don't know what the mission statement is, I think those things can be like north star, but I think 100% culture and values show up every day and how you're treated when you walk in the door. Those are the moments that matter.
JAMES: Yeah absolutely. So culture, communicated most powerfully through formal onboarding or informal interactions?
CAROLINE: For me again, I think it's the informal interactions.
That being said, you obviously, you need a process, right? Like it can't just be like you throw the new starter in the door and then you just kind of see what happens.
So I think in my experience with O.C. Tanner, it was a really lovely combination of the two. You know, I felt incredibly prepared for, and like I was wanted when I came in the building. It was like okay these people really want me here. And that was a really great thing to feel.
But it also wasn't so sit down in the boardroom, we're going to show you a slide deck, fill out this paperwork, and you know, it wasn't like that. It felt very structured and planned and, you know, again, prepared for, but it was so organic and just so warm and welcoming.
And it was like that for the whole week. I mean, probably for the first 3 weeks, I carried around, you know, my agenda that had been printed out for me, so I knew what was happening, who I was meeting with, and I don't think anyone's ever gone to that level of care to make sure that I felt prepared and knew what was coming in my first few weeks.
And as someone who's, you know, I've built onboarding programs for organizations before, and I know how important it is for new starters to know what's coming. You know, they're just starting this job. They're trying to plan their life and for them not to have any idea what their first few weeks look like or what's expected of them is really stressful.
It was just little moments like that, you know, having a printed agenda and then knowing like, okay, we're going to meet the team, have lunch here, and do all these things. And, yeah, so I think planning is good, but I think it, again, it shows up in those organic everyday informal moments.
JAMES: Yeah, definitely. You've touched on something really interesting there. I think that sort of anxiety everyone experiences in those first few days. It's a new environment, new people, and the more the organization can actually take away some of those worries, what you end up doing is creating a space for that person to spark some connections with their colleagues, with their peers.
I think where that culture lives is in those interactions, you know, within the people, within the organization. And the more you can expose them to that, the faster you start to get a feel for what kind of company you've joined, you know, what sort of really matters.
I'm curious though from a a leadership perspective. So, how do leaders signal which contributions really matter to the organization, do you think?
CAROLINE: You signal that through what gets recognized, through what's talked about, through what is celebrated.
It's in those moments that it's really clear to anyone looking, you know, from the outside or from the inside what the organization values and what matters to them.
It's quite simple really, I feel like I've said a million times, but what gets recognized gets repeated. If you continue to highlight certain behaviors or certain interactions or certain focuses, that's where everyone's attention goes to.
I think that's how leaders highlight it by what they pay attention to.
JAMES: Yeah, I love that. So simply put, but you're right, you know, so effective as well.
So, let's change gears a little bit and talk, I'm curious really. So, one way that culture becomes visible is through what an organization notices and celebrates, you just said.
And that brings us to recognition. Having now worked inside an organization that specializes in recognition, has your understanding of what recognition actually means changed at all?
CAROLINE: It has actually, quite fundamentally I would say.
Again, with my background in learning development and people development, I've always believed in recognition. I've set up recognition programs for companies before, never something fully integrated, but just where there wasn't one that existed.
Helping leaders understand how important even quarterly recognition is because people, they want more immediate returns and when they know that they have to work for an entire year to reach one awards moment or one awards night where only five people in the whole company get recognized. That's great because it is some form of recognition, but it doesn't necessarily keep me engaged all year long.
I don't think I ever really realized how important incremental recognition was until I joined O.C. Tanner. It was really surprising actually when I was recognized for my first 30 days in the job. Like that just that seemed almost crazy to me because I was like well of like of course I'm here. But again, it was that moment where the organization was like, you've been here for 30 days now and we're so happy that you're here.
They did make it personal and they pointed out things that I specifically had done, like relationships that I had worked to build or areas that I had contributed in. And that made it feel like, okay, this isn't just a generic, hey, you made it 30 days, well done, but that we're really paying attention and we want you to know how valuable you are.
And within myself, I literally felt like, okay, like you just become ingrained a little bit more, right? Like you just feel a little bit more attached to the company and to the culture because they've clearly already invested so much in you.
I think that was really eye opening, you know, because again, it's something that you hear about, oh, recognition does this or, you know, you need to make sure that you have these programs and whatnot, but once you experience it, I think it does really make a difference in how you view it.
And again, it was something that I thought I already bought into, but then when I actually lived it, it was just like it just kind of took a deeper root, I suppose.
JAMES: Yeah. What I'm really hearing actually is that, there's always this danger that recognition sort of becomes performative.
It sort of trained into leaders and peers that you've got to recognize great work and you do it in this sort of set way.
But actually what's really coming across in what you're saying I think is that by making it personal and really drilling into that individual's accomplishments and their contributions, that sort of personalization is what really gives it, makes it genuine and authentic. Is that fair?
CAROLINE: 100%. And as like you just said, you know, it's happy and it's this or it's that. Sometimes it's even not. And it's about recognizing that this has not been easy. You know, we pulled together an event despite a massive heat wave and power outages and transportation strikes.
And it was looking at, in that moment, not to be like, you know, happy shiny people, but to say this was not easy. And you know, we've not had the turnout that we wanted and this went wrong and this went wrong and we could have just all fallen apart but we didn't.
And so like to celebrate that resilience and to say thank you in that moment, I think again it just makes it so much more meaningful and it does feel so much more genuine than just you know yeah, a shiny happy moment.
JAMES: I think as well crucially it's not, it's more than just a simple thank you. And don't get me wrong, thank you can be a very effective means of recognition. I know from my own personal experience how valued that simple statement can be because it's not a given that that people always appreciate what you're doing.
But you know to really sort of address the situation, the specifics, and each individual, I think it sounds like that's what really brings that authenticity to that moment.
CAROLINE: Definitely. Yeah.
JAMES: So, most leaders are unlikely to argue that appreciating people is a bad idea, but the research we've, the O.C. Tanner Institute have done shows a considerable gap between agreeing with recognition and actually embedding it into everyday work.
I've got a couple of stats here to share from a recent study we had from our Institute for the European market. So, 57% of European employees said that recognition was part of everyday culture. That's pretty good.
Meanwhile, 42% reported recognition from their immediate leader in the previous 30 days. I sort of feel like, could be better.
One final point here, 55% reported recognition from a peer and 32% from a senior leader in the previous 30 days.
So, it feels like plenty of organizations are sort of taking recognition up and embedding it into their culture but maybe, on a daily basis, how that recognition is actually getting sort of distributed and by whom right? Peer-to-peer versus the leadership group, could do with a little bit of attention.
Is that a sort of fair assessment? Why do you think recognition could, can be valued in principle but remain inconsistent in practice?
CAROLINE: Yeah, I think it's a really good question, and I think a lot of it comes down to one, time. I think we all get bogged down in our day-to-day and you know, what we're focused on, and we often forget to look at the contributions of others and how those might be feeding into different things.
I think a lot of it does come down to leaders don't see recognition as something that they need to focus on or really even that they're responsible for.
But you know, as leadership goes so goes the organization and if they're not practicing it then no one else is going to make time for it either.
So I do think some of its time, I think some of it is something we you know, have talked about and that I've read in the research is you know if I have to go looking for ways to recognize you, I'm going to think about it, but I'm probably not actually going to do it because it's going to, it's inconvenient, right?
As selfish as that sounds, it’s the truth. So I think by not making recognition easily accessible, readily available, and something that's practiced often, I think it, that's how it often, you know, it gets missed.
Again, from my own personal experience coming from organizations where it wasn't embedded into the everyday flow of work, where it's not something that, you know, I guess was practiced regularly. I find myself thinking how appreciative I am and thinking about what a great job someone did and then days will go by and I remember like I didn't even mention that to them. You know, I didn't say it to that person.
So, it's almost like within this culture I'm also learning again, I know the value of recognition but I'm learning to practice it. And I think that's probably true for a lot of leaders.
JAMES: Yeah. Yeah.
That's a really interesting point and you know we often hear sort of recognition must be timely and of course, that's really important to what you just said there.
You want to make sure that you're capturing the recognition within the moment, you know, that sort of acknowledges that work.
Equally, I suppose, “better late than never” might apply on occasion. And to not recognize someone because you were busy or you know, it sort of slipped down a priority list. While that being a shame, you want to, goes back to what you said earlier. I think you want to reinforce the good behaviors, the positive behaviors and you can only do that b practicing them.
I'm curious then so, inconsistent recognition. Can that create sort of a perception of unfairness maybe do you think?
CAROLINE: I do, I do think it can especially if you know certain leaders only recognize certain individuals.
I've seen it in organizations before where it's oh it's always this top salesperson who gets this award or they win this every year and the people who contribute to their success are never recognized or never thanked.
And while, of course high-flying achievements should be recognized, but I do think when it's not consistent you know across the board it can absolutely give the perception of favoritism.
But I think one way leaders can probably combat that I suppose would be the best way to describe it is through one, consistency, but also just because someone's being recognized for, you know, for their outstanding achievements or, you know, for working really well, it doesn't mean that they're, you know, above the culture.
They're not above the values. They're not above, you know, the consistent daily practices. And I think that's probably the easiest way that leaders and organizations can reinforce that it's not about unfairness, but this, you know, the recognition is very deserved. Everything else, you know, the rules still apply essentially.
But also then by making the recognition really personal, connecting what they've accomplished to the work that they did, you know, to the people that it supported and then to the outcomes that it's going to provide, I think also makes it really difficult to argue that that's favoritism when it's clearly just saying well done. You deserve this.
JAMES: Yeah, absolutely, but I think that sort of transparency, the trust building, all of that element is obviously so key, and consistent really sort of plays the part there, doesn't it?
One final question just on this section before we move on. You know, if recognition is genuinely important to engagement, to talent retention, talent acquisition, building culture, why do you think it's still so often the case that it is behind other priorities for HR leaders, for CEOs, for you know, well, anyone in that sort of environment?
CAROLINE: That is such a good question, and it's something that I've asked myself many times over the years because honestly, recognition, that positive reinforcement, it is a basic human instinct to respond well when somebody recognizes you or praises something that you've done.
It's baffling quite honestly that leaders don't understand that and don't lean in more to that. So I think just, you know, it's a bit of a culture shift and you can literally feel it when you walk into an organization that is using recognition to reinforce good things that they want to see.
I don't know why more leaders don't grab on to that except for the fact that it can potentially be seen as fluffy or a nice to have or you know, they don't look at it as a performance driver or you know a tool to change behaviors.
JAMES: Yeah. I mean we're certainly seeing a lot more uptake aren't we? And in particular here actually in Europe that the growth has been exponential in the last few years where I think organizations are picking up exactly on what you just said: that this is a performance driver.
Actually this can resolve quite a lot of the challenges that you're facing elsewhere in the organization.
And you know it's sort of moving, it is perhaps slowly but is moving away from “it's a nice to have” to something much more essential to the sort of organization and the framework around it.
So we're sort of touching now on the impact on business. We've talked quite a lot about recognition and the role it takes for the people, but let's move from that human experience into the sort of the business side of things, and what changes in an organization when recognition becomes part of that everyday culture?
CAROLINE: I think just the whole outlook turns around, right? I mean, if you're using recognition to build bridges and to encourage things, you're, you've automatically got a more positive flow to your work versus a negative one where you are potentially just trying to keep your head down so that nobody notices you versus actively and willingly going to collaborate and to work together.
And I think that recognition does bridge that gap. In organizations where you see that frequently you are going to see a lot more collaboration and again, working in learning and development I cannot tell you how many requests asked for collaboration workshops.
And honestly, your people don't need more training. They need leadership to recognize the work that they're already doing.
And I think that's one of the biggest differences. You do see collaboration. You see people feeling like they can speak up, they can share ideas. They continue to work off the grid as well.
And I think this is actually a really an interesting point where, in so many organizations, it feels like employees aren't trusted with hybrid working and, you know, working from home days, people just, I don't know why leadership just assumes that people are at home doing nothing.
But when you use recognition to point out or to highlight these things that are happening when people think no one else is looking, that speaks to your character. And again, that employee, that team is going to double down and continue to work harder because you've just told them that they're valuable.
You've made their contribution visible and therefore you're going to get better returns from that team from that group of people and so yeah I think recognition, I'm not even sure if this is answering your question anymore, but I think recognition drives organizational outcomes because it is literally the company saying we saw what you did this was exactly what we were hoping for, thank you.
And again that's what's going to continue to happen, that's what's going to get repeated.
JAMES: Yeah. You know, keep doing it essentially.
I wonder as well if there's a sort of a way to ask this question the other way round, which is what's the cost to the business of not appreciating and noticing good work, of not rewarding those the sort of positive behaviors?
CAROLINE: Well, of course, and personally, I think the cost is massive. Like it could be catastrophic because again, you're just encouraging apathy at that point because no matter what they do, it doesn't really matter.
You know, if you show up every single day, and give 100% or show up every single day and give 50%, and you get the same outcome either way. Again, it's human nature to show up and give 50%.
JAMES: So, you and I, we work for the European arm of O.C. Tanner, and we talk about our region quite a lot, but the research from our Institute actually makes clear that it's not one recognition culture.
What should organizations standardize and what should they be localizing?
CAROLINE: I think localize everything, and I think you can standardize the principle.
And what I mean by that is the core of it, the meaning behind it, the why you're doing it, that can be universal.
But what that looks like even within the same organization but within different geolocations is going to be different, even within the same geolocation.
It can look different within different teams and different individuals.
I think having the principle behind it that is consistent and carries through really and truly has nothing to do with how that's actually portrayed in practice because the meaning can be the same. But how that's given to someone else can be completely different.
And knowing that I can still experience that but in a way that makes me comfortable, that's really special because again that's the organization saying like the recognition is the same, the meaning is the same, but we know that this isn't how you want to be recognized. So we're going to adapt that.
And you know, I think it is very much that same principle that applies to every different region across Europe because it is so diverse and the cultures are so different.
You can still use recognition to reinforce the behaviors that you want to see repeated by recognizing group contributions or, you know, project outcomes. And there's just always a way, I think, to make it happen as long as the meaning behind it is consistent.
JAMES: Yeah, that's really interesting because I think we often think of fairness as doing the same thing for everyone consistently, but actually in that example you've just used and this probably applies globally.
What you're not saying is you do recognition in one of those regions where it's well received and you don't do it in the others. Instead, you tailor that experience whether that's at the company level, at the individual level, you basically create the right environment for that person so they get to participate in in this sort of culture.
CAROLINE: Well, exactly that. Yeah. Because again, I think recognition is the company signaling what it values like where it places value and what's important to the organization. So you should absolutely carry that through every culture everywhere.
But I do think how that is done can look very different and should look very different.
It doesn't mean that you don't need it. It just means that you need it in a different way.
JAMES: All right. I think we're coming up on our time together today.
So, I've got one final question for you before we wrap up. After your first 90 days, what is the one thing you now believe every organization should understand about recognition?
CAROLINE: I think every organization should understand that recognition is single-handedly the best way to motivate people, to show what matters to the organization, and to show what you value.
JAMES: Yeah,I really can't disagree with that.
I know I just said that was the last question. I got one more though I just thought of.
If we recorded this conversation again in another year's time, what would you hope still feels true?
CAROLINE: I mean, gosh, probably all of it, which is a really cheesy answer.
But I hope that I would still be, you know, surprised and delighted by recognition. And I hope that, it's not even a hope. I know that I will still believe that recognition is as powerful a tool for people as it is.
Recognition really truly has shown me on a very personal level that it does increase engagement. It does make you want to work harder. It does make you want to keep showing up, even when it's not easy. You know, I have a horrible commute, but I love being in the office because I like being with my team. There's some days where you're just exhausted, but you show up because you want to. And that is a a new feeling for me, to be honest.
So, yeah, you know, I just hope that's always true.
JAMES: Caroline, thank you so much.
Today's conversation has highlighted that employees do not experience culture as an abstract statement. They experience it through everyday interactions and through the moments that show them their work, their contribution, and their presence matter.
We've also heard that the principle of recognition may be universal, but its expression has got to be personal, authentic, and appropriate to local culture.
And the research here in Europe and elsewhere points to a clear challenge. Recognition is widely valued, but is still too inconsistent. It's too dependent on individual managers and too often absent from everyday work.
The opportunity is not simply to create more recognition activity. It's to make recognition more meaningful, more accessible, and more firmly connected to culture and to business. So, Caroline, thank you for sharing such a fresh perspective from your first 90 days.
CAROLINE: Thanks for having me.
JAMES: And thank you for listening to Culture by Design. We'll see you next time.
